Wang Su 王肅

RecordsRomance Wei Courtesy name 子雍 Ziyong王粛왕숙자옹王肃

Profile
OccupationROfficial · Minister of Ceremonies NOfficial · Grand CommandantFactionWei
AppearsRNBiography inBook of Wei
BornR195 UnverifiedNative placeDonghai Commandery Unverified
DiedR256 UnverifiedPlace of death
Cause of deathRIllness Unverified
ExistenceHistoricalMentionsR24

Profile

Wang Su, courtesy name Ziyong, was the son of Wang Lang and succeeded his father, who died in the 2nd year of Taihe (228). At eighteen he studied the Taixuan under Song Zhong and wrote a commentary on it, and after serving as Cavalier Attendant-in-Ordinary, Director of the Palace Library, Minister of Ceremonies, Superintendent of the Imperial Household and Intendant of Henan, he rose to Central Commander of the Army. He died in the 1st year of Ganlu (256); according to the Biographies of Technicians, his illness became critical at the age of sixty-two and he died. Records, Wei 13 §69 · 71 · 80 · 91–92 · 95Records, Wei 29 §44

He favored the learning of Jia Kui and Ma Rong and disliked that of Zheng Xuan, and he wrote commentaries on the various classics, all of which were adopted by the official academies. He submitted a memorial that halted Cao Zhen's campaign against Shu and another urging that palace construction be reduced, and when Guanqiu Jian and Wen Qin rebelled, he laid out to Sima Shi a plan for stopping them. Records, Wei 13 §96 · 71–73 · 80–83 · 93–95

In his assessment Chen Shou said of him that he was 'clear-sighted, upright and widely informed, and well able to carry the firewood his father had split'. In the Romance he first appears in Chapter 99 as a Gentleman of the Yellow Gate who memorializes that Cao Zhen's campaign against Shu be halted, and appears in 4 of its 120 chapters; his name is not in any chapter title. Records, Wei 13 §99Romance, Ch. 99 §50

In the Records

Wang Su, courtesy name Ziyong, succeeded his father Wang Lang when the latter died in the 2nd year of Taihe (228). At eighteen he studied the Taixuan under Song Zhong and went on to write a commentary on it. In the Huangchu era he became Cavalier Gentleman of the Yellow Gate, and in the 3rd year of Taihe (229) he was appointed Cavalier Attendant-in-Ordinary. Records, Wei 13 §69 · 71

In the 4th year of Taihe (230), when the Grand Marshal Cao Zhen campaigned against Shu, Wang Su submitted a memorial. Even on a level road, he said, when provisions are carried a thousand li the soldiers go hungry; now the army was cutting a road as it advanced through rugged country, and with the long rains on top of this, Cao Zhen had covered only half the valley more than a month after setting out, so that the enemy could rest at ease and wait for our exhausted troops. Citing how King Wu, campaigning against Zhou, went out through the pass and came back, and how Emperor Wu and Emperor Wen, campaigning against Sun Quan, reached the Yangtze and did not cross, he urged that the troops be rested, and in the end the expedition was called off. His memorials proposing that mourning be held for great ministers and that fruit be offered at the ancestral temple were also put into effect. Records, Wei 13 §71–73

He also set out the foundations of government, proposing that idle posts and unneeded salaries be cut so that officials would be few and their salaries generous. He further proposed reviving the ceremony of holding court every five days, so that, as in the early Han, the high ministers would come to court in person with their business. Records, Wei 13 §73–76

In the Qinglong era, when the Duke of Shanyang, who had been sovereign of the Han, died, Wang Su memorialized that he be styled 'Huang' and that it be attached to his posthumous title. Emperor Ming did not follow this and gave him the posthumous title Emperor Xiaoxian of Han. Records, Wei 13 §77–79

Later Wang Su, as Cavalier Attendant-in-Ordinary, took charge of the Palace Library and concurrently served as Libationer of the Chongwen Academy. In the Jingchu era, when palace construction was in full swing, the people lost their farming, and punishments and executions were carried out abruptly, Wang Su memorialized that of the thirty or forty thousand men now at work only ten thousand able-bodied men be kept and rotated each year, and the rest be sent back to farming. Saying that good faith toward the people is the great treasure of a state, he urged that conscripted people be sent home by the promised date, and that those to be punished be handed over to officials so that their crimes could be made known. He also proposed abolishing all the expense of keeping useless birds and beasts. Records, Wei 13 §80–87

When Emperor Ming asked about Li Yun, Prefect of Baima, who had died after submitting a letter in the time of Emperor Huan of Han, Wang Su answered that his words had merely lost proper measure, while his real intention had been to help the state, so killing him had not necessarily been right. When the emperor said that Sima Qian, harboring resentment, had disparaged Emperor Xiaowu in the Records of the Grand Historian, Wang Su answered that Sima Qian neither embellished falsely nor concealed evil, and that the resentment lay with Emperor Xiaowu, not with the historian. Records, Wei 13 §88–90

In the 1st year of Zhengshi (240) he went out as Administrator of Guangping, and on taking up office he issued an instruction to the counties mourning Zhang Jian, who had already died. Recalled, he became Court Gentleman-Consultant, then Palace Attendant, and was transferred to Minister of Ceremonies. At that time the General-in-Chief Cao Shuang monopolized power and employed He Yan, Deng Yang and others; while discussing government with the Grand Commandant Jiang Ji and the Minister of Agriculture Huan Fan, Wang Su called them the likes of Hong Gong and Shi Xian. Cao Shuang heard of this and told He Yan and the others to be careful. Wang Su was dismissed over a matter concerning the ancestral temple, and then became Superintendent of the Imperial Household. When two fish a foot long gathered on the roof of the arsenal, he said there would be a calamity in which a frontier general would throw away his armor and flee, and afterward there was indeed the defeat at Dongguan. Later he was transferred to Intendant of Henan. Records, Wei 13 §91–92Records, Wei 11 §103

In the 6th year of Jiaping (254) he was given a tally and concurrently served as Minister of Ceremonies, and escorting the imperial carriage he received the Duke of Gaogui Village at Yuancheng. That year, when a white vapor crossed the sky and the General-in-Chief Sima Shi asked him the reason, Wang Su answered that it was the banner of Chiyou and that there would be disorder in the southeast. The following spring, when Guanqiu Jian, General Who Guards the East, and Wen Qin, Inspector of Yang Province, rebelled, Sima Shi asked how the state could be made secure. Wang Su cited how Guan Yu had made Yu Jin surrender on the Han River but collapsed in a single morning when Sun Quan attacked and captured the families of his officers and soldiers, and said that since the parents, wives and children of the officers and soldiers of Huainan were all in the interior provinces, it was enough simply to block them quickly and keep them from advancing. The Biography of Fu Gu records that in the spring of the 2nd year of Zhengyuan (255) some said Sima Shi should not go in person but send the Grand Commandant Sima Fu, and that only Fu Gu and Wang Su urged him to go in person. Sima Shi followed this and defeated Guanqiu Jian and Wen Qin. Records, Wei 13 §93–95Records, Wei 21 §95

Later he was transferred to Central Commander of the Army with the additional post of Cavalier Attendant-in-Ordinary, and received another 300 households, bringing his fief, together with the earlier grants, to 2,200 households. According to the Biographies of Technicians, the Central Commander of the Army Wang Su was among those for whom the physiognomist Zhu Jianping's predictions went wrong. When his illness became critical at sixty-two and his wife asked for his last words, Wang Su said there was nothing to worry about, since Jianping had told him he would live past seventy and reach the rank of the Three Excellencies, which had not yet come to pass; but in the end he died. When he died in the 1st year of Ganlu (256), his disciples who wore mourning numbered in the hundreds. He was posthumously made General of the Guards and given the posthumous title Marquis Jing. His son Wang Yun succeeded him but died without a son, so the fief was ended, and in the 4th year of Jingyuan (263) Wang Su's son Wang Xun was enfeoffed as Marquis of Lanling. Records, Wei 13 §95Records, Wei 29 §44

Wang Su favored the learning of Jia Kui and Ma Rong and disliked that of Zheng Xuan. Gathering the agreements and differences among the various interpretations, he wrote commentaries on the Book of Documents, the Book of Odes, the Analects, the Three Rites and the Zuo Commentary, and edited and settled the Commentary on the Changes written by his father, all of which were adopted by the official academies. His essays discussing and refuting matters of court institutions, the suburban sacrifices, the ancestral temple and mourning numbered more than a hundred. When he compiled the Evidence from the Sages to disparage Zheng Xuan, Sun Shuran of Zheng Xuan's school refuted it, and the Biography of Wang Ji records that when Wang Su altered Zheng Xuan's old interpretations, Wang Ji upheld Zheng Xuan's meaning and constantly opposed him. When the Duke of Gaogui Village had the Book of Documents expounded at the Imperial Academy and asked about the places where the interpretations of Zheng Xuan and Wang Su differed, the Erudite Yu Jun answered that, judged by the 'Great Plan', Wang Su's meaning was the better. Records, Wei 13 §96–97Records, Wei 27 §52Records, Wei 4 §62 · 67–69

In his assessment Chen Shou called Zhong Yao, Hua Xin and Wang Lang outstanding men of their age, and said that Wang Su was clear-sighted, upright and widely informed, a man well able to carry the firewood his father had split. Records, Wei 13 §99

In the Romance

In Chapter 99 of the Romance, while Cao Zhen and Sima Yi are halted at Chencang, heavy rain continues for thirty days and the soldiers suffer, and though the ruler of Wei sets up an altar to pray for clear skies, it does no good. At this point the Gentleman of the Yellow Gate Wang Su memorializes that, since the long rains have been added to the hardship of carrying provisions a thousand li, the troops should be rested, just as King Wu went out through the pass and came back and Emperor Wu and Emperor Wen reached the Yangtze and did not cross. Yang Fu and Hua Xin also memorialize, and the ruler of Wei sends envoys to recall Cao Zhen and Sima Yi. Romance, Ch. 99 §48–52

In Chapter 109 he appears as Grand Commandant. When Sima Shi summons Cao Mao by order of the Empress Dowager, the civil and military officials welcome him outside the West Side Gate, and when Cao Mao hastily returns their bows, Wang Su says, 'Your Majesty should not return the bow.' Cao Mao replies that he too is a subject, so how could he not return it? Romance, Ch. 109 §43

In Chapter 110, when Guanqiu Jian and Wen Qin raise troops in Huainan, Sima Shi, who is recuperating at home after having a tumor on his eye cut out, summons the Grand Commandant Wang Su to consult him. Wang Su cites how, when Guan Yunchang's might was at its height, Sun Quan had Lü Meng attack Jing Province by surprise and care for the families of the officers and soldiers, so that Lord Guan's army fell apart, and says that since the families of the officers and soldiers of Huainan are all in the Central Plain, if they are quickly cared for and the soldiers' road home is cut off, the rebels will crumble like a heap of earth. Sima Shi calls it good advice but hesitates because he is unwell, and then, heeding Zhong Hui's words, sets out in person. Romance, Ch. 110 §4–6

In the same chapter, after Sima Shi dies, Cao Mao wants Sima Zhao to stay at Xuchang, but Sima Zhao brings his troops back to the south of the Luo River; Wang Su then advises that since Sima Zhao has taken over his brother's great power, he should be granted rank to set him at ease. Cao Mao sends Wang Su with an edict appointing Sima Zhao General-in-Chief and Intendant of the Affairs of the Imperial Secretariat. Romance, Ch. 110 §29–30

In Chapter 119 Sima Zhao's wife is introduced as Wang Su's daughter, who bore his eldest son Sima Yan and his second son Sima You. Romance, Ch. 119 §31

Where the Romance differs

The memorial to halt the Shu campaign: In Chapter 99 of the Romance, Wang Su, who submits the memorial, is called a Gentleman of the Yellow Gate. In the Records, he became Cavalier Gentleman of the Yellow Gate in the Huangchu era and was appointed Cavalier Attendant-in-Ordinary in the 3rd year of Taihe (229), and this memorial belongs to the following year, the 4th year of Taihe (230). Romance, Ch. 99 §50Records, Wei 13 §71

Grand Commandant: In Chapters 109 and 110 of the Romance, Wang Su is called Grand Commandant. In the Records, he was given a tally and concurrently served as Minister of Ceremonies in the 6th year of Jiaping (254), was later transferred to Central Commander of the Army, and after his death was posthumously made General of the Guards. In the Biographies of Technicians, Wang Su says before his death that the prediction that he would reach the rank of the Three Excellencies had not yet come true. Romance, Ch. 109 §43Romance, Ch. 110 §4Records, Wei 13 §93 · 95Records, Wei 29 §44

Receiving the Duke of Gaogui Village: In Chapter 109 of the Romance, there is a scene in which Cao Mao returns the bows of the officials welcoming him and Wang Su stops him. The Biography of Wang Su in the Records says only that Wang Su, escorting the imperial carriage, received the Duke of Gaogui Village at Yuancheng. Romance, Ch. 109 §43Records, Wei 13 §93

The plan to stop Huainan: In Chapter 110 of the Romance, Wang Su cites how Sun Quan had Lü Meng attack Jing Province by surprise and care for the families of Guan Yu's officers and soldiers. In the Records, Wang Su cites how Guan Yu's army collapsed in a single morning when Sun Quan attacked and captured the families of his officers and soldiers, and says that since the families of the officers and soldiers of Huainan are in the interior provinces, they should quickly be blocked and guarded against. His foretelling of disorder in the southeast on seeing the white vapor is not in the Romance. Romance, Ch. 110 §4–5Records, Wei 13 §93–94

Who urged him to go in person: In Chapter 110 of the Romance, Zhong Hui tells the hesitating Sima Shi that sending someone else would be unfavorable, and Sima Shi sets out in person. In the Biography of Fu Gu in the Records, there was a view that the Grand Commandant Sima Fu should be sent, but only Fu Gu and Wang Su urged Sima Shi to go in person. Romance, Ch. 110 §6Records, Wei 21 §95

Sima Zhao's enfeoffment: In Chapter 110 of the Romance, Wang Su advises that Sima Zhao be granted rank, then carries the edict and appoints him General-in-Chief and Intendant of the Affairs of the Imperial Secretariat. This is not in the Biography of Wang Su in the Records. Romance, Ch. 110 §29–30Records, Wei 13 §70–97

Sima Zhao's wife: Chapter 119 of the Romance says Sima Zhao's wife was Wang Su's daughter. The Biography of Wang Su in the Records records only Wang Yun, the son who succeeded him, and Wang Xun, who became Marquis of Lanling, and does not record his daughter's marriage. Romance, Ch. 119 §31Records, Wei 13 §95

Classical learning and death: The Romance does not depict Wang Su's commentaries on the classics, his dispute with Zheng Xuan, or his death. The Records state that his commentaries were all adopted by the official academies and that he died in the 1st year of Ganlu (256), and the Biographies of Technicians state that his illness became critical at sixty-two and he died. Romance, Ch. 110 §29–30Romance, Ch. 119 §31Records, Wei 13 §95–97Records, Wei 29 §44

Written by 3KDEX (not yet reviewed) — The tags at the end of each paragraph link to the exact passage in the Records volume or Romance chapter it is based on.

Abilities

The Records score (Chen Shou’s Records of the Three Kingdoms, main text) is the baseline. Each ability compares how the Romance redrew the same person, and the evidence from both sources explains the difference.

LEASTRINTPOLCHAVIRADPSCHDIPDIS
Records (solid) vs Romance (dashed)
  • LEA3535±0
  • STR3131±0
  • INT8076−4
  • POL7645−31
  • CHA5542−13
  • VIR7245−27
  • ADP6062+2
  • SCH9050−40
  • DIP6055−5
  • DIS4540−5
Records · Romance scores and difference (Romance − Records · left = lowered by the Romance · right = raised)

Abilities shaped by the Romance — where it differs from the Records Differences of 10 or more

ScholarshipR90N50Unverified −40

RHis commentaries on the classics were all adopted by the official academies; over a hundred essays refuting ritual mattersWei 13 §96Wei 4 §67

NNo direct record — estimated from the record of his memorialsCh. 99 §50

PoliticsR76N45Unverified −31

RMemorialized to abolish idle posts and cut officials, and to reduce construction labor and send men back to farmingWei 13 §73Wei 13 §82

NNo direct record — estimated from his career as Grand CommandantCh. 110 §29

VirtueR72N45 −27

RRemonstrated for good faith toward the people and care in punishment, and likened He Yan's clique to wicked menWei 13 §84Wei 13 §91

NReminded the new emperor of proper ritual, yet urged that Sima Zhao be granted rankCh. 109 §43Ch. 110 §29

CharismaR55N42Unverified −13

RAt his death the disciples who wore mourning numbered in the hundredsWei 13 §95

NNo direct record — estimated from his role as Grand CommandantCh. 109 §43

6 similar abilities — show evidence
  • LeadershipR35UnverifiedN35Unverified ±0

    RNo direct record — estimated from his career as a civil official and administratorWei 13 §91

    NNo direct record — estimated from his role as a civil officialCh. 110 §4

  • StrengthR31UnverifiedN31Unverified ±0

    RNo direct record — only a civil career is recordedWei 13 §71

    NNo direct record — estimated from his role as a civil officialCh. 110 §4

  • IntelligenceR80N76 −4

    RArgued the disadvantages of the Shu campaign in the long rains and got it halted; his plan to block the Huainan families helped defeat Guanqiu JianWei 13 §71Wei 13 §94

    NMemorialized to halt the Shu campaign in the long rains; proposed the plan to care for the Huainan familiesCh. 99 §50Ch. 110 §5

  • AdaptabilityR60N62 +2

    RDismissed over a temple matter and later restored; urged Sima Shi to campaign in personWei 13 §92Wei 21 §95

    NAdvised enfeoffing Sima Zhao, who held great power, to set him at easeCh. 110 §29Ch. 110 §30

  • DiplomacyR60N55 −5

    RDefended Li Yun and Sima Qian and answered Emperor Ming's questions with reasoned argumentWei 13 §88Wei 13 §89

    NCarried the edict and appointed Sima Zhao General-in-ChiefCh. 110 §29

  • DiscernmentR45UnverifiedN40Unverified −5

    RNo direct record — estimated from the record of his many disciplesWei 13 §95

    NNo direct record — no records concerning talentCh. 110 §4

Special — talents Records +10 · Romance +0

  • Divination & astronomy

    RSkilled +10 Predicted the defeat at Dongguan and disorder in the southeast from the fish on the roof and the white vaporWei 13 §92Wei 13 §93

Records Romance Unverified No direct record; scored from their actions (evidence grade C)

3KDEX scoring — the Records use the main text of Chen Shou’s Records of the Three Kingdoms; the Romance uses the 120-chapter Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Click a source tag to open that passage in the reader.

Romance chapters (4)

AppearsNot present Chapter list →

Allegiance history

  1. Wei · Records · Records vol. 13 「黃初中,爲散騎黃門侍郎」

Family

ParentsWang Lang Records

Based on Wikidata items for the historical and Romance figures. Relations without the Unverified badge were also confirmed in the Records.